The third episode of *It: Welcome to Derry* arrived packed with flashback sequences as terrifying as they are illuminating.
In Derry, circa 1908, a young boy visits a traveling circus that boasts a ghoulish sideshow and at least one creepy clown. On the way home, he meets a young girl, and they become summer sweethearts—though at one point, they have a very alarming encounter in Derry’s deepest, darkest forest.
Welcome to Derry fans will know, of course, that 1908 is one of Pennywise’s “cycle” years—1935 is another one we hear about in the HBO series, which takes place in 1962. And the show makes it very clear who these kids grow up to be: General Francis Shaw, who’s returned to Maine intent on unearthing the entity he met there for military purposes, and Rose, who now runs the Secondhand Rose shop in downtown Derry and has become a leader among the local Indigenous community.
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**An Interview with James Remar and Kimberly Guerrero**
*io9* got a chance to talk to James Remar and Kimberly Guerrero, who play Shaw and Rose, about their roles in the show and the memories (both fond and frightening) that their *Welcome to Derry* characters share.
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**Cheryl Eddy, io9:** It’s perfect that Rose owns an antique store because she’s so deeply connected to history. Why do you think it’s important to have a character like Rose as part of this story?
**Kimberly Guerrero:** You need that sense of centeredness, that groundedness of what has come before. There was a civilization there before Derry—what was that civilization, and what was their interaction with the creature? Rose embodies that information that’s been handed down from generation to generation.
So the fact that she’s in a secondhand store, not only with the embodied knowledge of her own people but also with the history of the people of Derry, and some of those people that have passed away too—it’s a very grounding place for her to be. She’s kind of the true north on the compass.
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**io9:** We learn that Derry’s Native American population has knowledge of the monster’s origins and its powers. This is an angle we’ve never delved into before. What can you say about the way *Welcome to Derry* approaches the subject?
**Guerrero:** Finally, we get to unpack all of this mysterious Indian lore that’s kind of undergirded a lot of the horror we’ve seen in the last few decades. What’s so exciting about it is that when you actually unpack it, there are powerful and mysterious elements at work.
Our people understand those powerful, mysterious elements and our interrelation with the things that we can’t see but that we know are there. And so we’ve made some pacts.
I’m not talking about in the story; I’m talking about in real life. Each reservation has their bad woods, their places you don’t go, and protocols for how to deal with certain things. That’s always deeply rooted in being an Indigenous person on our land and understanding where we come from.
All of that is fed into this story and connected through a Penobscot elder named John Bear Mitchell, who’s our direct source. We ensure everything is very authentic and historically accurate.
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**io9:** General Shaw, or Francis as Rose calls him, has his heart in the right place and a personal connection to the mission in Derry. He’s also not close-minded to the supernatural. But do you think he’s maybe a little blinded to the limitations of what he’s trying to achieve?
**James Remar:** Blinded, certainly. I couldn’t have put it better myself. The funny thing about personality flaws or character defects is that generally, you’re going to be blind to them. You won’t know that you are this or that unless someone else tells you and you accept it.
I believe his heart is in the right place, but it’s been buffeted by a lifetime of war and childhood trauma. The only solace—the only kind and gentle times he experienced—were when he was frolicking with Rose after she saved his life from the demon It in the woods with a slingshot.
After that, it’s been all about the military and moving forward in courage, not going backward to the past. Yet somehow, the past has a way of asserting itself and drawing him back in. I think he was subconsciously blinded to what was actually happening and how he was being drawn back.
There’s something that happens in the very last scene that I can’t reveal that lets you know you haven’t been forgotten. Derry remembers you.
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**io9:** General Shaw mentions that at one point, he took an experimental drug that helped him remember his childhood in Derry. Are we talking LSD, MKULTRA kinds of stuff? How deep did you dig into his military backstory?
**Remar:** He’s got a chest full of medals. You don’t get to be a lieutenant general in the United States Air Force by sitting around. He is a combat officer, a World War II and Korean War veteran, and at the top of his class.
He’s among the best, which is why he is the tip of the spear of the Strategic Air Command. At the end of World War II, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, we had B-52s circling the globe, ready to drop the bomb if the Russians attacked. We were living under constant threat.
With espionage and the Cold War, brainwashing was all the rage, especially with the Korean War and reports of soldiers being brainwashed into becoming communists and spies.
Mind control was huge back then, and LSD was part of that. I feel General Shaw couldn’t order soldiers under him to do something he wouldn’t do himself—some of these brainwashing experiments, learning about LSD and truth serum. That’s where he would say, “I’ll go first.” That’s the kind of guy he was.
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**io9:** These two have a shared history and there’s still chemistry between them despite their differences. How did you work together to get their reunion just right?
**Remar:** We both have to be pillars of strength. When you have an attraction to someone like that, those pillars have to lean a little.
I feel like I messed up a little in the scene where Francis and Rose reunite because we shot it twice. The first time, I was a little too taken with her—“Oh gosh, I love you from when I was nine years old.” I had to be rougher, so the final product has me a little more contained and less tender.
**Guerrero:** It’s really incredible that—the audience won’t necessarily know this; it will be in the subtext if you watch closely—but Francis is Rose’s first love.
Rose never married and never had children. It’s not that she didn’t want to, but her responsibility wouldn’t allow for a loss like she experienced when Francis was taken from her.
She missed him, and she understands how Derry clouds memories. She knows that once he goes, he won’t remember her. It’s not just the loss of him; it’s that he won’t remember what they had.
That is a part of her heart she’s guarded and protected all these years. When James and I talked about it, it was similar for him as well—he doesn’t think Francis married or had children.
**Remar:** In my office, there are nothing but military pictures and trophies. No pictures of family on my desk. No wife, no kids.
**Guerrero:** I think we married our duty.
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**io9:** But Francis kept the slingshot.
**Remar:** Great toy, great weapon. That’s David and Goliath—she saved my life with that thing.
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New episodes of *It: Welcome to Derry* arrive Sundays on HBO.
Want more *io9* news? Check out when to expect the latest *Marvel*, *Star Wars*, and *Star Trek* releases, what’s next for the DC Universe on film and TV, and everything you need to know about the future of *Doctor Who*.
https://gizmodo.com/it-welcome-to-derry-episode-3-spoilers-kimberly-guerrero-james-remar-2000680985
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